I was just at EJI's Montgomery, Al museums yesterday! Recommended for everyone. I can't say you'll ENJOY it, but you will be gob-smacked the overwhelming display of the terror that white supremacy leads to. Easy one-day trip but even better to spend a night in Montgomery and take your time.
One of my big baileywicks is reading Scripture in the historical, social, cultural, political, religious and linguistic context in which a particular passage was written to determine the author's original intent in writing the passage. I do this because the Old Testament, the Apocrypha and the New Testament are very ancient texts written in very ancient languages, and words which were used then may not have modern equivalents AND the author was likely writing to a very different culture than ours. (It's kind of like trying to read Cicero or Homer without knowing anything about ancient Roman or Greek society, cultural, or religious practices: good luck!)
I get a lot of Christians, particularly cultural Christians and fundagelicals really mad at me when I do this, but I really believe Biblical passages deserve the respect of being read and understood as a particular author wrote them and intended them to be understood -- which is very hard work which most Christians, unfortunately, aren't willing to do.
In this text, Jesus has been teaching and performing miracles in the presence of many including the Shammaite Pharisees, who opposed Jesus. Jesus was also a Pharisee, but in the Hillel tradition. Much of what Jesus taught was in opposition to what the Shammaite Pharisees taught, so they were constantly accusing and speaking against Him. Such is the case here. They had accused him of casting out devils by the power of Satan. They could not deny the miracles had been performed, so they attacked the means by which they were performed. Jesus goes on to state that He has performed the miracles by the power and Spirit of God. Next, we come to His statement in verse 30. Summarizing the Greek, Jesus says that “you are either *presently in the condition of being with me* or in contrast *you are presently in the position of being against me*". Jesus' statement is a function of the situation in which He was speaking (to the Shammaite Pharisees who were accusing Him). Jesus' statement is NOT meant as an existential statement, e.g., "either you are with Me or you are against Me." which is to apply to everyone, for all time.
Unfortunately, a great many Christians haven't taken it this way, and they interpret it as "Either you are a Christian, or you really don't matter as a person." I believe Jesus never intended the passage to be taken that way.
Mark, have you ever read, "Rauser, Randal. Is the Atheist My Neighbor? Rethinking Christian Attitudes toward Atheism. Eugene, OR: Cascade Books, 2015." Rauser is a thoughtful Christian theologian who seems to do just what you think should be done in re the Bible. He even explains why Psalms 14:1 and 51:1 are NOT attacks on atheists. It might also be worth repeating your comment on my post about "He that is not with me ... "
It’s been many a year since I read it but Jon Meacham in his book “American gospel : God, the founding fathers, and the making of a nation” delves deep into the subject of Christianity and America’s founding. The ability for personal choice in religion, or to practice none at all, was foundational in their thinking.
Regarding the passage from Romans, I find it interesting that Paul subsequently went to prison for spreading Christianity. I wonder if he changed his tune about submitting to government then.
Indeed, Jon Meacham writes well and *American Gospel* (2006) is a good example. I have a signed first edition in my collection. (A bit unfortunately, it's not only signed but inscribed--though not to me/us. I think I bought it at an estate sale.)
As always, wonderful essay, Ed. I also remember Clark saying, "If atheism is a religion, health is a disease." ❤️
I'd be interested in reading a post (by you or a guest writer) on what it's like to believe. I've always been an atheist and have trouble picturing what belief in a god or, more broadly, in the supernatural, looks and feels like.
This is an outstanding essay. In fact, it would be hard to imagine a better short statement and defense of atheism. It is appalling that you submitted this essay and never received acknowledgement. You deserved thanks, not rudeness.
The canards against atheists and atheism I have most often heard are these:
Atheism is a religion.
Atheists hate God.
Atheists deny God so that they can sin without guilt.
Atheists are dogmatic; nothing would convince them that God exists.
Atheists are just horrible, horrible people.
If you defend atheism in public, you will encounter one or more of these. One commenter on a Christian blog said that in my first debate with William Lane Craig I said that nothing would convince me of the existence of God. Actually, I said just the opposite and made clear what sorts of things would convince me. I complained to the moderator of the blog (an old friend) who corrected the commenter. Did I ever receive an apology? You get one guess.
My comment is about why the “looney” left is to blame. When someone fires an art professor for displaying art, that does not make them left (it makes them a jerk-crazy person).. I am open to explanations, but there has got to be something else going on here because the firing of the professor sounds like something the Republican side would do..
The purview of the left I know; wants to give us healthcare, free schools, END forever, wars, etc.. The left is not New Age, or health nuts pushing colon cleanse enemas.. And I can’t think of a single time the left has been in the business of censorship (firing an art professor)..
Maybe the answer lies in the definition of the far left (also called “radical left,” and “extreme left” in the wiki definition). I have been hard left all my life, and I don’t even recognize myself in the extreme left definition in the wiki.. Maybe this is why Bernie Sanders tried to anchor “Democratic Socialism” as his label..
Curiosity; not only this forum: I’ve noticed the left (left of democrats) being attacked across the board lately (LL / Looney Left, and shows on free speech tv, “Jill stein gave trump the election,” etc). Instead of blaming the left for Republican victories, people need to realize it is the failing of Democrats that creates the left; - Democrats need to start representing people again instead of corporations, because that is the biggest great between the actual left and the so-called left (Democrats).… I’ve been trying to figure out what’s going on with multiple attacks on the left lately; - Sounds like political rhetoric is warming up for the 2024 primaries.
I was just at EJI's Montgomery, Al museums yesterday! Recommended for everyone. I can't say you'll ENJOY it, but you will be gob-smacked the overwhelming display of the terror that white supremacy leads to. Easy one-day trip but even better to spend a night in Montgomery and take your time.
One of my big baileywicks is reading Scripture in the historical, social, cultural, political, religious and linguistic context in which a particular passage was written to determine the author's original intent in writing the passage. I do this because the Old Testament, the Apocrypha and the New Testament are very ancient texts written in very ancient languages, and words which were used then may not have modern equivalents AND the author was likely writing to a very different culture than ours. (It's kind of like trying to read Cicero or Homer without knowing anything about ancient Roman or Greek society, cultural, or religious practices: good luck!)
I get a lot of Christians, particularly cultural Christians and fundagelicals really mad at me when I do this, but I really believe Biblical passages deserve the respect of being read and understood as a particular author wrote them and intended them to be understood -- which is very hard work which most Christians, unfortunately, aren't willing to do.
In this text, Jesus has been teaching and performing miracles in the presence of many including the Shammaite Pharisees, who opposed Jesus. Jesus was also a Pharisee, but in the Hillel tradition. Much of what Jesus taught was in opposition to what the Shammaite Pharisees taught, so they were constantly accusing and speaking against Him. Such is the case here. They had accused him of casting out devils by the power of Satan. They could not deny the miracles had been performed, so they attacked the means by which they were performed. Jesus goes on to state that He has performed the miracles by the power and Spirit of God. Next, we come to His statement in verse 30. Summarizing the Greek, Jesus says that “you are either *presently in the condition of being with me* or in contrast *you are presently in the position of being against me*". Jesus' statement is a function of the situation in which He was speaking (to the Shammaite Pharisees who were accusing Him). Jesus' statement is NOT meant as an existential statement, e.g., "either you are with Me or you are against Me." which is to apply to everyone, for all time.
Unfortunately, a great many Christians haven't taken it this way, and they interpret it as "Either you are a Christian, or you really don't matter as a person." I believe Jesus never intended the passage to be taken that way.
Mark, have you ever read, "Rauser, Randal. Is the Atheist My Neighbor? Rethinking Christian Attitudes toward Atheism. Eugene, OR: Cascade Books, 2015." Rauser is a thoughtful Christian theologian who seems to do just what you think should be done in re the Bible. He even explains why Psalms 14:1 and 51:1 are NOT attacks on atheists. It might also be worth repeating your comment on my post about "He that is not with me ... "
It’s been many a year since I read it but Jon Meacham in his book “American gospel : God, the founding fathers, and the making of a nation” delves deep into the subject of Christianity and America’s founding. The ability for personal choice in religion, or to practice none at all, was foundational in their thinking.
Regarding the passage from Romans, I find it interesting that Paul subsequently went to prison for spreading Christianity. I wonder if he changed his tune about submitting to government then.
Indeed, Jon Meacham writes well and *American Gospel* (2006) is a good example. I have a signed first edition in my collection. (A bit unfortunately, it's not only signed but inscribed--though not to me/us. I think I bought it at an estate sale.)
Ed, enjoyed this and learned some things! You lack knowledge a god exists. But do you say you also lack knowledge that there is no supernatural being?
Yep--I lack any knowledge of anything/anyone supernatural AND I lack belief in any such, too. Separate matters.
My first reaction was that you didn’t answer my question. But I read it again and I guess you did.😁
I didn’t really answer that until my post yesterday—and then I *think* I did.
Excellent Essay.
As always, wonderful essay, Ed. I also remember Clark saying, "If atheism is a religion, health is a disease." ❤️
I'd be interested in reading a post (by you or a guest writer) on what it's like to believe. I've always been an atheist and have trouble picturing what belief in a god or, more broadly, in the supernatural, looks and feels like.
Jodi, I know just the right guy to write such a guest essay--I'll ask him and see if he'll do that. Love and regards, fast eddie b
That's great! Thank you!
Love, Jodi
He's agreed, at least tentatively, so you'll probably have that to look forward to one Wednesday.
Cool. That was quick!
BTW, Jodi, I have his (Steven Bell's) essay now. As soon as I post it--in a Wednesday or three from now--I'll alert you.
Great! Thanks, Ed (and Steven).
This is an outstanding essay. In fact, it would be hard to imagine a better short statement and defense of atheism. It is appalling that you submitted this essay and never received acknowledgement. You deserved thanks, not rudeness.
The canards against atheists and atheism I have most often heard are these:
Atheism is a religion.
Atheists hate God.
Atheists deny God so that they can sin without guilt.
Atheists are dogmatic; nothing would convince them that God exists.
Atheists are just horrible, horrible people.
If you defend atheism in public, you will encounter one or more of these. One commenter on a Christian blog said that in my first debate with William Lane Craig I said that nothing would convince me of the existence of God. Actually, I said just the opposite and made clear what sorts of things would convince me. I complained to the moderator of the blog (an old friend) who corrected the commenter. Did I ever receive an apology? You get one guess.
Thanks, Keith-fodder for more essays here on Letters... Either from you or from me.
My comment is about why the “looney” left is to blame. When someone fires an art professor for displaying art, that does not make them left (it makes them a jerk-crazy person).. I am open to explanations, but there has got to be something else going on here because the firing of the professor sounds like something the Republican side would do..
The purview of the left I know; wants to give us healthcare, free schools, END forever, wars, etc.. The left is not New Age, or health nuts pushing colon cleanse enemas.. And I can’t think of a single time the left has been in the business of censorship (firing an art professor)..
Maybe the answer lies in the definition of the far left (also called “radical left,” and “extreme left” in the wiki definition). I have been hard left all my life, and I don’t even recognize myself in the extreme left definition in the wiki.. Maybe this is why Bernie Sanders tried to anchor “Democratic Socialism” as his label..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics
Curiosity; not only this forum: I’ve noticed the left (left of democrats) being attacked across the board lately (LL / Looney Left, and shows on free speech tv, “Jill stein gave trump the election,” etc). Instead of blaming the left for Republican victories, people need to realize it is the failing of Democrats that creates the left; - Democrats need to start representing people again instead of corporations, because that is the biggest great between the actual left and the so-called left (Democrats).… I’ve been trying to figure out what’s going on with multiple attacks on the left lately; - Sounds like political rhetoric is warming up for the 2024 primaries.